Saturday, November 22, 2014

Writer Beware: How NOT to behave toward readers and fellow writers.

The screencaps in question came from a writer's Facebook profile from a couple of days ago. The conversation started with the writer (who from what I could tell from their comments has been publishing for only about a year) bemoaning cliques, bullies, poor sales, etc. and that there was JUST SO MUCH dreck out there it was difficult for a writer to get ahead, bemoaning that another writer had just announced they were going to quit writing, etc.

Then things took a...disturbing turn.

A commenter (Se - full name redacted) made the comment regarding the genre of dark erotica (DE) that people who write it, and, well, you'll see for yourself. And the author, whose profile it was, AGREED WITH THEM. Keep in mind the author who owns the profile is an author of MM erotica.



Um, WOW. "Or else the authors and those who support it should be kidnapped and raped so they learn their fucking lesson."

Keep in mind, the commenter, Se, according to her profile, is an ACTRESS IN B-GRADE HORROR MOVIES. Um, yeah. Glass houses, much?

But even more disturbing is that not only does the author, E, let the comment stand, she REPLIES TO IT: "I could not agree more, Se! And yet the trampier and darker it is, the more it sells. It's a disgusting paradox, a cultural conundrum. ANYTHING GOES does NOT mean ANYTHING."

Ya know, if someone put something on my wall stating that authors and readers of certain genres should be "kidnapped and raped so they learn their fucking lesson," I'd personally be DELETING the comment and blocking the commenter. NOT agreeing with them!

(Gee, I wonder why this writer has poor sales?)

Here in the US, we fucking SHUT DOWN SCHOOLS for vaguer social media threats than that!

But, benefit of the doubt and all that. Maybe she didn't read the whole comment? Hmm.



Se comments again, talking (ironically) about words having power. Writing about how those authors must hate other women. And the author, E, agrees...AGAIN.

Well, gee, what happens when someone calls her on it? (Keep in mind at this point, the original comment by Se was STILL up, along with the author's responses (not once, but TWICE stating she agreed with the commenter, Se).



Um, well, TWICE she agreed with Se's comments. Guess she didn't think people would, I dunno, call her OUT ON THE OUTRAGEOUS AND HEINOUS COMMENTS??? Because, see, she commented NOT once, but TWICE about Se's comments before Se commented again. So, I'm thinking she had PLENTY of time to think about her response to Se. It sounded pretty straightforward to me. Also, I'm not sure how the author E defines divisiveness, but apparently it differs greatly from mine, because agreeing that writers and readers should be kidnapped and raped is pretty fucking divisive.




The comment in question had already been deleted, so I couldn't get a cap of that. But SA called the author out on the bullshit, and that was the author's response. Wow. I guess it's okay if you're a victim of a sexual crime to wish kidnapping and rape on authors and readers of genres you don't agree with. Nice logic fail. But, since she's in London, obviously she knows better than the rest of us poor hicks elsewhere in the world. Narcissistically superior attitude...check! But we're not allowed to have "pregnant offense" about a comment suggesting kidnapping and rape of authors and readers of DE is all right. Okay, gotcha. Double-standard. Check! I would also hazard a guess that Se or the author likely have not been victims of such violence, because I cannot imagine ANYONE who has been in that position and is a survivor (myself included) would EVER wish that kind of fate on someone else. So, I call BULLSHIT. I've wished many evil fates on fuckers in the past, but NEVER THAT. So...again, BULLSHIT.



Oh, so she was just being POLITE by agreeing that rape and kidnapping authors and readers of DE is okay. Ahhh. That makes it all better. And pity poor her, she's being bullied because she dared agree with someone suggesting heinous crimes are an okay response to writing something someone else doesn't like. She doesn't even know why everyone's in a "snit?" (Keep in mind, the original heinous comments from Se, come from someone who ACTS IN HORROR MOVIES. So, it's okay to glorify killings as entertainment in a movie, but if you write DE, that's not okay. Uh huh. Got it.)

But she also LIES in this comment, because she DID condemn people who did. (She'd already deleted the comments by this point. Yay, screencaps!) So, it's okay for HER to insult (and incite violence against) people, but it's NOT okay for people to call her out on it. Gotcha.

Here's the thing:

You know, I get that there are flavors of fiction that don't appeal to some. I get it, I really do, because there are flavors of fiction that I don't like. HOWEVER, there's a huge difference between saying you don't like something, and suggesting authors and readers of those genres you don't like should get kidnapped and raped to be "taught a lesson" about it. I'm sorry, but that's morally reprehensible rhetoric, IMO, and it smacks of the same kind of bullshit the Taliban and other radical religious nutjobs spout. And these are SUPPOSEDLY "liberal" people saying this shit. It's FICTION. If you don't like it, DON'T READ IT, but don't go saying shit that makes you look like a genetically inbred asshole, either.

And yes, regardless of what Se thinks, IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

I'm an ADULT. I will write what I damn well please, and I will read what I damn well please, and I do not need some self-righteous prig who apparently thinks women's lib is all about doing it THEIR way telling me I'm wrong and disturbed. I'm sorry, but fiction is FICTION.

You want to talk about books that incite violence against others? Let's start with the Bible and other religious tomes, shall we? Hmm? Because I've read the Bible. There's murder and rape and all sorts of lovely little things like that against others in there. So should we ban the Bible or other religious tomes for those reasons? Because, hello, according to Se and the author, that's exactly what should happen, those books don't deserve a place.

Hot news flash: YOU DON'T GET TO PICK WHAT OTHER PEOPLE CAN READ, ASSHOLE.

I wonder if there is a category in Weight Watchers for activity points earned by backpedalling? Because, damn, instead of just deleting the WHOLE goddamned thread, the author dug herself a deeper hole. I guess she thought the Internet isn't forever. Screencaps, biatch. And I'm doing her and the commenter a favor by redacting her name. (Although I do have the unredacted screen caps up in my Tymber's Trybe group because the night it happened I ranted in there about it.)

So to the author in question: Hmm, let me help you out here. Why do your sales suck? I looked you up, and you have a history of going after people who give you one-star reviews. This is not the first time you've committed acts of asshattery. Are there bullies and cliques on GR and elsewhere? Yes, It's called LIFE. However, I can see by your actions that you aren't exactly what I'd call a little ray of sunshine, there, girlie. Your very behavior in this thread, attacking people who RIGHTFULLY called you out on your bullshit (and I also did you a favor by not getting screencaps of all your asshattery, because most of the people who called you out did so with FAR more class than your responses) shows you are NOT mature enough to deal with the public. Do yourself a favor: DITCH YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA. Focus on WRITING YOUR BOOKS and quit pissing and moaning about your sales. Because, seriously, based on this exchange and others I've found out about you, it's not other books tanking your sales, chica.

It's YOU.

You're a whiny, narcissistic, entitlement-minded BRAT. Readers notice that shit. You insulted readers. You probably lost a shit-load of potential readers from the people who saw the original dust-up on your page. You'd already lost several dozen friends by the time I blocked your sorry ass. You will never get any promo from me, and I already booted and blocked you and several of your pimping team from one of my groups over this.

Oh, and next time an asshat comments on your wall that people who write and read dark erotica (or ANY kind of book) should be raped and kidnapped, DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM. (Twice.) DELETE their fucking comments. And for fuck's sake, when you fuck up, APOLOGIZE. Do NOT dig yourself a deeper hole and accuse the people who call you out on it of being bullies. (Because, sorry, you agreeing that DE readers and writers should be kidnapped and raped IS BULLYING.) I don't know how you Londoners do shit, but here in the US, we don't look lightly upon people making those kinds of comments.

There was a time when GLBTQ romance and erotica (since you are a writer of MM erotica) was basically demonized. Yet you think nothing of demonizing another genre of books?

Fuck you, Sunshine.

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for book banners (which you are by your very words, thinking that a particular genre isn't worthy of existence) and I have ZERO TOLERANCE for people who condone violent responses to people who read and write certain genres.

It is as simple a matter of IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT.

Sorry you feel your sucky sales are the fault of other people, but I strongly suspect based on your reactions in this case that you will remain clueless.

Those of us who are writers because it's WHO WE ARE, not just what we do, we will NEVER stop writing. We just won't. Maybe you're not cut out to be a writer. We'll write even if we have to have a day job in addition to writing to pay our bills. If your sole concerns about your career are your sales, you are definitely in this for the wrong reason. If you think other genres that are selling are taking away from your sales, it just goes to show you do NOT understand the business of publishing. It is NOT a zero-sum game. Publishing is NOT a finite pie that will be eaten up and gone if you don't get your slice.

And frankly, you don't seem to have a grasp on the business of publishing. If YOU aren't in it just for the sales, then WHY ARE YOU FUCKING WHINING about what books DO sell? Seems like that's a pretty contradictory mindset, bucky.

It's a long, long marathon. And by insulting readers and their intelligence, you aren't going to garner many friends. You're bemoaning you aren't "successful" after a year of publishing? Bitch, I've been doing this for SIX FUCKING YEARS as a fiction writer and I'm still trying to find my way. There are writers who've been published longer than I am. It's called PUBLISHING. And it's a BUSINESS. And you do NOT win friends and influence people by being a cunt to readers and insulting their choices in reading material. (And yes, the word cunt appropriately describes you in this instance.)

Peace out, mutherfucker.

32 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. @Fedora - Unfortunately, I can't make this kind of asshattery up.

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  2. I watched this go down, and I have to say that I was appalled that she suggested she had to "dumb down" her writing so that the readers could "understand" her. She basically bashed her readers. Suggesting that we wouldn't understand big words and anything over 3 syllables. I can tell you that I have a lot of author friends that I don't necessarily like their books, but I love their personalities and posts. I've even bought their books to support them as an author, even if I wasn't going to read it. I have also NOT bought books of authors who deem us lowly readers as unworthy, even if I've liked their books in the past. Any industry that thrusts you in the public eye (by choice or not), isn't based solely upon your talent, it's also based on how you act "in public". (Whether they like it or not). So either act right in public, or don't go out there.

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    1. @Kim - Yes, I really wish I'd screencapped all of those, too, before I blocked her ass. LOL Oh, well.

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    2. Question: What's the easiest way to alienate the few readers you surprisingly have?

      Answer: Assume that they are too stupid to realize you just called them stupid.

      Good luck to her.. doubt she will sell much more. Can you imagine if her main character was as personable as her?? Haha

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    3. I just have no words to describe all of this except: The dumb is strong in this one. *smdh*

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  3. I have screen shots of this nasty behavior. I was disgusted. Thank you for posting this!

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    1. @Diana - It took every ounce of will I had not to go after her on her wall, but I knew that would be futile. So I opted to expose it in my territory. That way, she can't delete posts and claim she didn't say stuff she said.

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  4. As a blogger of dark books I was disgusted and offended at the behavior of this author. Thank you for posting this.

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    1. @Twisted Sister - Yes, I seriously had a jaw-dropping, WTF moment and read and re-read her comments. She can claim all she wants that she didn't agree with the poster, but her own words betray her. I think she was just pissed off that people called her out on it.

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  5. Wow! Seriously messed up. I know who this author is, and I've read some of her responses on Amazon to bad reviews. That alone has kept me from buying her work. Sad.

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    1. @Terri - My only exposure before this was nearly spam-like repetitive posting of her promos by her and others in one of my groups. Since this, I've been sent a LOT of stuff about her previous antics, and had I known she was that kind of person, I would have booted and banned her from my group a lot sooner. She's the kind of author that makes all self-published authors look bad.

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  6. So I randomly came across this post shared somewhere on Facebook. I had no clue who wrote this post, when I started reading it. I was in awe of the idiocy of whoever allowed that kind of conversation to go down on their page. I seriously get ranting. Being frustrated, fists in the air about how unfair it is, but holy crap in a bucket. Can we say extreme? And to actually say that writers/readers of dark should be raped? All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not on the other side of that Karma train.

    I'll be completely honest, I love dark erotica, bdsm, and whatever other kinds of kinky fuckery there is out there... I'm a survivor. I don't condone the actions of the characters in the books I read... I mean really, we all know that human trafficking is bad. Well, maybe not the human traffickers, but that's neither here nor there. These are books, clearly listed under FICTION. Would these same idiots get all up in arms over a NONFICTION book written about real life captives/rape/abuse/etc? I could name several. Would that story be one that the writer deserves to be raped? Or is just unacceptable for fiction?

    I'm sure that I'm not the only person out there that can relate to the emotions fictional characters go through. As a survivor, reading something darker, having that thread of understanding for the character makes reading the book that much more intense for me. Not all of these books have a HEA and some that do have what I call a fuckeduplyeverafter .... but the victims in the book that come out stronger, the ones that thrive despite it all, the ones that prove how human beings are capable of beating odds and surviving no matter what. Or unlocking some hidden piece of themselves and coming out the other side with eyes wide open and "whole" THAT is therapeutic to some degree.

    Judgemental assholes.

    PS Tymber .... The Reluctant Dom ... best book ever. Bawled my eyes out, turned around read it again and bawled some more. Very awesome. I may have fan-girled when I saw this was your blog. <3

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    1. @Miranda - Aww, thank you! :) I appreciate the kind words. And yes, I will NEVER judge someone for their choice of what to read in fiction. Not my job to judge. As long as it's FICTION, and as long as it stays in the realm of FICTION, and doesn't make some criminal jump into reality, it's FICTION. Many kinds of fiction are cathartic for people for many reasons. And it doesn't make it wrong. It's fiction, it's ART. And anyone who wants to pigeonhole art just because they don't like it needs to STFU. :)

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  7. Wow. Just...Wow. I am not a fan of Dark Erotica or BDSM, but I sure as hell don't condone it. Like you said, If you don't like it, don't read it. How anyone can say that readers and writers of that genre should be kidnapped and raped is beyond me. What has happened to this world? Since when has that become all right? I thought we, a human race, were better than that. Thank you for calling her out, because things like that shouldn't be tolerated.

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    1. Apparently people get behind a computer and forget real people are on the other end. And again, it was mind-boggling that Se is an actress in gory, slasher, horror pics, yet she's picking on authors and readers of DE. Seriously. Just...no logic there.

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  9. I'm sitting here absolutely agape. As one of those dark and twisted souls who is constantly frustrated by publishers who try to "sanitize" the authors that I love who aren't afraid to write the dark, juicy, rapey-rape stuff....like Sara (hello!!))...just wow. Putting that EL author on my "do not buy under pain of death" list. And thank you for defending her, and we "sickos."

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    1. Yeah, with fiction, no one has a right to say what is and isn't "right." The market will correct itself. If people don't like it, they won't buy it. It's that simple. There IS a market for MM literature, however, so if the author in question doesn't have successful sales, my theory is it has something to do with her personality, her social media presence, maybe her spammy tactics (I booted her from one of my lists), or...maybe, just maybe, her books themselves. I have never read her books, so on that point I can't speak, and even then that's extremely subjective. But I have seen her spam groups, and I've seen how she treats people, so... *shrugs*

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  10. Defending Sara, I meant....not EL. :)

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  11. Se is a piece of work. She used to be a moderator on the FB page I'm an owner on. We had to delete comments, reviews, and posts from her on a regular basis for stuff like this. She would bash authors constantly and anyone that disagreed with her was a pig. She also had issues with religious anything. But she is a hypocrite too because she does those b horror movies, and also supposedly posed for playboy and other magazines. That promotes the same piggish behavior she hates. But her comments here went too far..way too far.

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    1. Yeah, the funny thing about the morally outraged is they are frequently also flaming hypocrites in the process. I'm not surprised to find out Se has a history of this kind of thing.

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  12. I somehow managed to delete my comment. Leave it to me, lol. But yeah she sure did get angry fast when she was called out for her agreeing with such comments.

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  13. I guess I missed this and I am glad, sounds like people need to get a grip and stop getting bent out of shape about a fictional book. Yes things happen in real like, (rape, abuse, torture) but no one is twisting your are to read these stories. I love a good dark read and I was sexually abused as a child but reading these types of stories has nothing to do with what happened to me. I choose what I read and not what people think I should read. Reading is something I do for me and not for someone else, it is my escape and I will continue to read whatever I want. Thanks for sharing this Tymber Dalton

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  14. Not a huge huge fan of most dark erotica myself. It's a huge trigger for me. Be that as it may, it makes no sense to me why any author (even while clearly pandering) would put down another author's subject matter. There is an audience for all kinds of stuff. I may not be it but who am I to judge. Anyone who would pander to a reader by agreeing anyone should be raped is clearly fucked up.

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  15. Even though I'm not a big fan of dark erotica myself, I don't damn people who read it. Why would I? Isn't it wonderful that people can like totally different things? Isn't it good that we are in a world where we can choose a book to our liking and not just have censored and approved stuff that's the same story in different disguises over and over.
    By the convoluted logic Se and E stated in their comments I should have been murdered in a dreadfully gory way by now. Why? Because I've read several murder-mysteries...and LIKED them!
    Now really.... a woman who plays in Horror-movies getting all high, mighty and righteous about DE writing... the irony is just... overwhelming.

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  16. Hello this is Mistik and I don't know how to enter my ID stuff on Blogger. lol

    I would really like to read this whole Fb disaster convo. This Author has no self-discipline.

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  17. She posted yesterday that she's taking a break from facebook, or the Internet? I'm not totally sure.

    This is from her goodbye facebook post....

    ***Well said, J***! I won't disappear entirely, but I'll be scaling back for a bit. When my otherwise insanely popular post in support of indie authors was used by Trolls and at least one other author with an overzealous desire to somehow make it all about HER, though I don't know the hoyden from Eve and don't care to, I realized: these petty squabbles are not what writing is all about. Writing is about writing, not taking loud and PREGNANT OFFENSE at every unintentional misstatement or innocent misunderstanding. The writer who is secure in her talent and the merit of her work will simply stand aside, and allow it to speak for itself. As I am doing now. ***

    Aww, you made her leave facebook. The poor baby. But I guess she hasn't put that 'vacation' into effect yet or she didn't get enough support or pleading for her to stay because she posted another four paragraph rant about PREGNANT OFFENSE and TROLLS and how nobody gets her (likely because she's the only non-stupid) and she doesn't even care. Which is why she keeps ranting about it using all capitals and such, naturally. O.o

    Hmmm. You know, this is all sounding very familiar. Like this whole scenario happened almost exactly the same back in February on GRs, FB and Amz. I believe she was called out for her posts calling readers stupid and also calling a reviewer (who actually didn't review her book, just made a comment in his review space about the obnoxiously long and overly verbose blurb) a "Black Baboon".

    She is quite a piece of work, this one.

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  18. why are we hiding her identity? she should be named and shamed! P S sorry but I don't seem to be able to post my name

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  19. The thing people don't understand about rape fantasy: Within rape fantasy, EVERYTHING IS UNDER YOUR CONTROL, WHICH IS THE ANTITHESIS OF ACTUAL RAPE. It's like holding a safe word. At any time, you can put down the book. That's your safe word. Holding a safe word means you have ULTIMATE control over what's happening to you. That is all I have to say on the subject.

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  20. couldn't have said it better myself thanks for putting it out there

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